Spring has left the Building!

Veröffentlicht: Oktober 7, 2010 in Automatic Binding for Guice, Java
Schlagwörter:, , , ,

Hi,

my Name is Daniel Manzke and I’m one of the Co-Moderators of the Xing-Group for the Java User Group Berlin-Brandenburg (Germany). I’m also organizing Presentations for the Group. I’m using Java for 6-7 years and worked with Spring for 3-4 years. At the moment I’m working on the Automatic Binding of Beans, Modules, Configurations and AOP for Google Guice. #GAB

So enough about me, I justed want to tell you a short story and I want to know from you, if I’m so wrong.

Some weeks ago I wrote Adam Bien an Email and asked him if he would present all the new Stuff around Java EE 6. I really like the guy, because he is pragmatic and you can discuss with him, without the normal flame wars of Programmers. (you should visit one of his presentations!)
We agreed that the 25.01.2011 would be the perfect date and ImmobilienScout24 will allow us, to present in one of their rooms. (with Pizza and Drinks – Thanks!)

Disclaimer: This blog and my opinions have nothing to do with ImmobilienScout24 or Adam Bien. These are my personal opinions.

In a later mail Adam had the great Idea, that we could make a Side-by-Side presentation. We thought Spring would be a nice Partner. I really liked the idea to hack an Example Side-by-Side with Java EE and Spring. Why? Because Spring always wanted to replace EJBs and all the heavy Stuff of Java EE.

So I started to search a good Spring-Presenter who would like to do this hacking. And here begins the funny part!

One guy (I don’t want to blame anybody so I’ll call him Mr. S) Mr. S wrote me that he liked the idea, but this comparison of the two Stacks doesn’t make a sense for him.
He wrote me, that you can create the Presentation Example with Spring, CDI, EJB and without Java EE, because Spring is so flexible. „And you can use Xml, Annotations and all this stuff.“

Until here I could follow him a little bit, but than he begun to write me the real features and advantages of Spring.

Mr.S wrote, that we can’t compare the Stacks, we should instead show how easy it is to bring such an App into the GAE, how to integrate Caching, how to integrate Twitter and how to connect NoSQL-Databases. „Java EE has no rudiments for the needs of the Future“

At this point I started laughing for about one hour and had a lot of discussions with Friends.

Does Spring has left the Building? Are you using Spring anymore? What DI-Implementation would you choose if you would start a new Project?

For me it is clear, I’ll never use Spring again. (only if I have to) Spring is just to heavy and not lightweight anymore. They tried to implement everything and make everything better. Do they have reached their aim or do they have lost their focus?
There are needs for NoSQL and all the stuff, but not for my Customers. I don’t know if they know how to write NoSQL, but I know that they are not able to administrate it.

So there are a lot of scenarios where I’m happy that Java EE is on the best way, to get really lightweight and Adam will show us all the Core-Stuff.

I’m really glad to know, that he is not one of the Marketing Guys!

So let us discuss, if Spring is useful anymore. If Java EE is fit for the Future. I’m really interested in your thoughts!

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Kommentare
  1. alice sagt:

    In fact, Spring is disappearig from the software development surface. Its minimal presence at JAX and W-JAX is clear evidence of this. Actually there are a lot of much lightweght solutions e.g. Guice. Therefore your Mr.S simply has to demonstrate, that Spring is still powerful, overwise it is only his words.

  2. Adam Bien sagt:

    Hi Daniel,

    I’m the cause of the problem – or the guy with the initial idea :-). Spring is still useful and popular. The idea of the JUGB talk was a learning experience: the attendees would see both at at glance and could ask questions – with lots of fun and pizza.

    Sorry for the escalation. Somehow if you only mention Spring in the context of Java EE 6 it ends up in heating discussions and flame wars.

    thanks for your invitation and organization!,

    I’m still looking forward to this event!,

    adam

  3. devpg sagt:

    As you already mentioned, your post is a little bit to ‚generic‘. For my point of view it’s no a question about black or white.

    I’m working with Spring for several years and it mostly solves my needs. I think the main different between Java EE and Spring is the focus. Spring is focussed on business integration while Java EE is more a technical selection frameworks and specifications.

    And yes, Spring offers a lot more than DI but there is no need to use it and the foot print will be small as well. I think another aspect in this case is more important. If you need additional support by the Spring framework afterwards it will perfectly work together.

    Cheers!

  4. Silvio Wangler sagt:

    Hi Daniel

    Nice post 🙂 Here are some of my thoughts…

    Well it’s not about what a framework can do. You should always us a pragmatic way just using features that you need to use. E.g. if you need no support for GAE do not use it. Don’t get me wrong this is not about JEE vs Spring. This is just about using only the features you need.

  5. Hi,
    so I am the „anonymous“ Mr. S. Actually not too anonymous if you read this.

    Here is my take on the story: I was asked to participate in the shoot-out. I thought a simple shoot out would be boring so I asked if we could raise the bar by doing some more cutting edge stuff (such as NoSQL, social networks) or cover topics normally ignored in this kind of demos (such as batch, integration, caching). To my surprise without any further discussion the event then turned into a „Java EE 6 only“ event. I was not even officially uninvited.

    I have to admit that I am surprised and disappointed by this. I did three talks at the JUG BB over the years and a session and a keynote at berlin.jar conference organized by JUG BB. I had at least expected that we could discuss how to make the event even more interesting.

    So if you want my take on the „Java EE vs. Spring“ debate: http://jandiandme.blogspot.com/2010/10/spring-vs-java-ee-and-why-i-dont-care.html.

    Eberhard

    PS: Looking at my schedule the Januar 25th would have been a problem anyway as I will present at OOP n Munich on Januar 26th.

    • Hi Eberhard,

      you got an answer in Xing. 😉 We really appreciate your Talks at the JUG BB and generally in Berlin. I often read your Articles in the Java Magazin and it is often interesting. But after this anwser I thought our Opinions doesn’t match and it would not match the aim of the Talk. Where we wanted to demonstrate simplicity. If you like too, I would organize a Talk where we have more time. Where we can look more deeply on both sides.
      I think the normal 1-1,5 hour are not enough for your proposed idea.

      Interested?

  6. Hi Daniel,
    thanks for your reply! As I said in my personal communication with you before and here in the blog I am happy to do a talk at JUG BB again. We need to discuss what you, me and any other party involved have in mind and then we can come up with a plan.
    Let me know.
    Eberhard

  7. openwms sagt:

    You trust Mr. Bean and you are excited of a coding session about How to build the winestore within 15 Minutes?Do you need all the stuff that comes with Spring?No,you are able to choose what you like to have!Compare reading a simple file with both,try to inject a List of collaborators with plain JEE5.Of course JEE6 has great benefits against v5 but do I’ve all I need?Dont’t forget Spring is a framework, JEE is a spec. Also compare the way of testing your app…However I agree with Eberhard and don’t care about these discussions upon now.

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